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Page move disaster[edit]

Browsing through Special:WantedCategories, I had found a number of categories full of translations of subpages of 2015 Community Wishlist Survey, which were all moved/redirected to corresponding subpages of Community Wishlist Survey 2015. This resulted in the pages being disconnected from their translations (while still remaining marked for translation and partially even getting duplicate translations). I've started at Community Wishlist Survey 2015/Bots and gadgets, which did not have any translations with this title yet, and unmarked it from translation to move the translated pages to the same title. Having done that, I started moving the corresponding translation unit pages to re-enable the translation extension without losing all the translations. After moving almost 200 of the just over 400 pages (using a script), the moves started to fail with "This namespace is reserved for content page translations. The page you are trying to edit does not seem to correspond to any page marked for translation." (which was not happening with the other unit pages). I decided it could work if I marked the page for translation at this point already, but it turned out that this failed as well, with "Page Community Wishlist Survey 2015/Bots and gadgets is not suitable for translation. Make sure it has <translate> tags and has a valid syntax.". I guess I should have discussed this somewhere before attempting to "fix" this myself, and I am very sorry for not doing so, but does anyone have suggestions how to proceed now? ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:16, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]

It appears there was a fail involving Category:Community Wishlist Survey 2015/da already (ping @Jusjih). Not sure how the pages were moved without FuzzyBot moving the translation pages in the first place. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:24, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
What exactly is the problem, like which page. I can't understand the above. Like can we have one of the problematic page? Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
This is all related to Community Wishlist Survey 2015/Bots and gadgets currently. I can't re-mark the page for translation, and I can't move the remaining translation unit pages for 2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Bots and gadgets to use the current order. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:32, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
At least I managed to remark for translation, but then what are the units pages that cannot be moved? Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:35, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Thanks a lot! I will try if I can now move the unit pages. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:36, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Hopefully you can do so, if not I think asking on Tech / phab might be needed. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 13:39, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Looks like it works now (though with the translation enabled, it seems that I'll be doing twice as many edits). It's actually possible that due to the high number of related pages, FuzzyBot failed to move them together with the translatable page. Maybe @MusikAnimal knows more, since he appears to have done the moves a couple years ago. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:42, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
(Actually, I was doing multiple unit updates in one edit on the translation pages, so I did not do an extra edit for every move.) This move is now done, with all the remaining pages at Special:PrefixIndex/Translations:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Bots and gadgets being English "translations" (should they be deleted as redundant?). If you take a look at a category like Category:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/bg though, you will see a number of similar pages where the connected translated page is now a redirect. They need to be fixed similarly. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Apparently, the other ones all have duplicate translations (from the original title and the current one) into da, ar, and arz. This will be quite hard to manage. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
13:53, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
So, a list of translation units at the translation pages of the current name ("Community Wishlist Survey 2015") compared to the corresponding translations of the old name ("2015 Community Wishlist Survey", where virtually all translations currently are) can now be found at User:1234qwer1234qwer4/Wishlist 2015 pages. It seems that the vast majority of the "new" translations can be deleted to make way for the move; the ones where no translation exists can just be kept, and the few cases where the translations are different can be handled by merging. I would like to hear some comments before I (or anybody else) proceed this time. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
15:57, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
I have no experience with this type of disasters, but your plan looks sensible. Ата (talk) 16:48, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Unfortunately, there are probably many issues like this one. Stefan2 asked to report and fix them, but nobody handles this request. Translate extension has now been improved (and again), and talk pages will be well moved and a warning has been displayed when there is too much pages (>500) to be manually moved.
Thank you 1234qwer1234qwer4 for handling that big case (2015 CWS). When Translations: unit exists in both locations, we can probably keep the most recent. This indeed implies to delete old /en units which are necessarly older than the ones at new location.
I don’t know whether your list is supposed to be exhaustive, but many pages seems to miss. -- Pols12 (talk) 17:17, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
@Pols12 My list shows all the translation unit pages under the new name, since they are what makes it harder to go ahead and move everything to the new name. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
17:19, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Oh, OK, sorry. According to me, they can all be skipped; this mass move seems me pretty safe. -- Pols12 (talk) 17:45, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
So, I would propose the following procedure:
  1. Move/merge updated translations at User:1234qwer1234qwer4/Wishlist 2015 pages to the old name to allow for step 2 without content loss
  2. Delete translated pages of the new title (including the remaining units, which will be identical to the ones for the older page title) to make way for the move
  3. Unmark page for translation and move translation subpages for attribution
  4. Re-enable translation and move unit subpages to new title
What do you think, @Pols12? ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
18:06, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
I did not think about attribution. Indeed, if you want to keep authors in translation page history, you probably have to also move translation pages, not only translation units. But I’m not sure this is legally needed: these are only short translations, which often come from translation memory (so from unmentionned authors…).
For keeping attribution, your process seems me good. 🙂 -- Pols12 (talk) 18:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Thanks, I think there is quite a number of longer explanations, so I would prefer attribution. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
19:00, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Yes check.svg Done for Community Wishlist Survey 2015/Categories as well now. Since there were apparently no arz translations originally, I had to restore Translations:Community Wishlist Survey 2015/Categories/16/arz, but I couldn't restore Community Wishlist Survey 2015/Categories/arz due to a bug with Special:Undelete and pages related to the translation extension, so I recreated it using a null edit at the translation page. Since the translation is short, this should not be a problem, but I'm going to be more careful with this in the future. Also, should I delete the orphaned English translations at Special:PrefixIndex/Translations:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories now? ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
19:53, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Noting that the arz translations do not exist for the old titles at all, so I have not been touching them for the other pages. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
09:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Next page done, with orphaned English translations at Special:PrefixIndex/Translations:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Commons. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
20:40, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Fourth one done; will stop for today. Special:PrefixIndex/Translations:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Editing contains translation pages where the unit no longer exists apart from the English translations now. I think these can also be deleted. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
21:43, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[]
I decided to do the remaining ones in one run; a couple notes:
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
15:31, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
I suppose the last one has to be commented on by those who currently support Wishlist; I hope it's ok to ping Szymon here. Ата (talk) 16:46, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
As for the /en pages mentioned, they can be deleted safely, as far as I can tell. – Ата (talk) 18:29, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Actually, the mainspace pages can just be redirected I think, as that will avoid breaking links, and I had also left redirects while moving the other translated pages. The pages in Translations: namespace I will just delete. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
18:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
It's been quite a while, but from my recollection I moved all translation pages over with a script. I may have skipped 2015 because it used a different format, and it was very old anyway and received comparatively few pageviews. My apologies for that, and thanks for cleaning up my mess!
I don't believe myself or anyone at Community Tech set up the Category:Community Wishlist Survey/Translations system. Whatever you think makes sense I'm sure is fine. The re-usable messages are categorized at Category:Community Wishlist Survey/Messages, and to my knowledge this is the only work we did in the way of categorizing translations. MusikAnimal talk 21:11, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Apparently the 2015 survey has more subpages marked for translation than the other surveys, so marking the 2015 category for translation again seems reasonable. @Kaganer Any comment on this? ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
18:51, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[]
NP. To fit the general approach, I can bring all translations back into one general category. Kaganer (talk) 02:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[]
The /en pages in Translations: namespace are now deleted. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
22:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[]
Note that I didn't delete the 29 nonexistent/removed translation units still at Special:PrefixIndex/Translations:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/ yet. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)
10:26, 22 September 2021 (UTC)[]